Memory Alpha talk:User projects/Timeline project
Living Witness I'm just going to leave this here: Since no date, or stardate, was given in , the only thing that dates the episode is Seven of Nine, placing "Living Witness" sometime after . That and the Kyrians are 60,000 light years from Mars. Not really sure where to put that, but it may fall into a window of time if we get some other distance figures from other episodes. - Archduk3:talk 04:27, October 27, 2009 (UTC) :There's nothing in that episode that will ever lead to accurate dating, unfortunately. It could take place after the events of (in the timeline where voyager didn't make it to the alpha quadrant until years later.) — Morder (talk) 04:31, October 27, 2009 (UTC) ::We should just leave that alone for the sake of simplicity. --Nero210 04:49, October 27, 2009 (UTC) The distance figure should allow us to place it into a window, and maybe the a year, if it came be proven to have happened in the same year as "The Gift". The date on the episode already notes it is an approximation, and actually links to the 31st century page, which is consistent with cannon. (I don't think it's speculation to run with the idea that episodes take palace in the same universe/timeline unless otherwise stated. So all other episodes involve Voyager returning to Earth during "Endgame".) - Archduk3:talk 05:03, October 27, 2009 (UTC) :That's the trouble, there is no timeframe you can divine from the episode at all. Because none of the episode takes place in the actual Voyager timeline and all takes place in the future the events depicted in the holographic recreations could be from any point in voyager's history. — Morder (talk) 05:05, October 27, 2009 (UTC) ::Don't we take production order (albeit as a last resort) into consideration when placing episodes as well? --Nero210 05:14, October 27, 2009 (UTC) :Yes, but only when the episode takes place in the normal timeline - in this case none of it does. The recreation never gives a timeframe and thus could take place during any time period. (Even production order doesn't always cover items such as ) — Morder (talk) 05:19, October 27, 2009 (UTC) conflict Not entirly true, we know that it takes place after "The Gift" (Seven), and Voyager was around 60,000 light years from home (referenced in dialog), so if there is an episode that references a distance shorter than that, we have our window. If it's an episode after "The Gift" and the distance is longer, we look for an episode after the new one with a distance shorter than 60,000, and we get a window. If those episodes have solid dates, we have a solid window of time that the EMHBM had to be stolen in. We also know that the episode takes place around 700 years from that point, so we get at least a century. - Archduk3:talk 05:22, October 27, 2009 (UTC) :Though I hesitate to say it you could just give the general 2370s as a year since it must take place during Voyager's run but, as I stated above, it could have been during the alternate timeline where Voyager took decades to get home. I'm not sure when the episode took place :It's still speculation, Archduk3 because even if we have a window it could be up to two years. Though if you find evidence I will support it but for now there is none. — Morder (talk) 05:24, October 27, 2009 (UTC) ::Timeless takes place 4 years, 2 months, and 11 days after Caretaker, according to Janeway in that episode, which puts it in early 2375. --Nero210 05:28, October 27, 2009 (UTC) :Stupid me not previewing. For some reason my edit got cut. Basically I stated that if you take into account the "Timeless" timeline then it must have happened before that. But if you consider that the particular timeline was reverted then it could have taken place after. There's also the two "Endgame" timelines to take into account. That's why this episode's year might never be known as it may have also take place in any of those timelines - without a stardate in the episode it's really only speculation otherwise. — Morder (talk) 05:33, October 27, 2009 (UTC) Message in a Bottle takes place before and after the uniform change. Was a distance for the Hirogen communications network given, as it could help with the above discussion. - Archduk3:talk 05:45, October 27, 2009 (UTC) :Apparently the 51xxx = 2374 is consistent. In Kes states that she'll leave Voyager in 3 years. Since that episode mostly takes place in Voyager's first season (2371) and 2371 + 3 = 2374. The Doctor gives a statement in that the events of Scorpion took place a few days before. Additionally, is stated to take place 9 months after . So from what I can tell based Voyager's first and fourth seasons the previous method of interpreting years from stardates (XX000 = Jan 1st) is consistent up until Voyager's fifth season, then everything gets screwy. --Nero210 06:16, October 27, 2009 (UTC) Voyager Season Five dating Okay onto other matters. Taking into account the evidence I presented on the project page regarding , I believe there's enough evidence now to conclude that and the subsequent episodes of the fifth season are set in 2376. Either that or all of Voyager's fifth season only covers a period from January to April 22, 2375; with a sudden (large) jump to December for . --Nero210 05:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC) :It is entirely possible that the entire fifth season only lasts a few months. — Morder (talk) 05:44, October 27, 2009 (UTC) :Based on the evidence you've given everything from episode 6 to episode 23 takes place in the first few months of 2375. — Morder (talk) 05:45, October 27, 2009 (UTC) That is EXTREMELY unlikely and VERY problematic. Look at for example, that ONE episode takes place over a thirty day period (hence the name, obviously). C'mon be smarter then the show... --Nero210 06:02, October 27, 2009 (UTC) ::Morder will NEVER speculate. EVER. He is must be Vulcan. :) - Archduk3:talk 06:06, October 27, 2009 (UTC) Maybe but...seriously...ALL of season five from January to April, with one of those episodes taking up a whole month!? We know takes place over a week-long period as well, if that will help anything. Sorry but it's just far to overwhelming now that season fives last four episodes are set in 2376. --Nero210 06:09, October 27, 2009 (UTC) :Ah but this is a canon wiki and therefore the information must be presented from canon. By your own explanation we have information that states the entirety of season 5 (save for a few episodes) takes place sometime before april 22nd. That's canon fact and can't be changed just because we don't believe it could happen that way. — Morder (talk) 06:14, October 27, 2009 (UTC) Unless there is a canon contradiction, which I don't think there is; but man would that be a fun road to go down. - Archduk3:talk 06:20, October 27, 2009 (UTC) You just contradicted yourself as well, because 11:59 doesn't state the year, only the date. So now YOU'RE speculating that season five is only 2375. --Nero210 06:19, October 27, 2009 (UTC) :I may be wrong and that's fine - it was all based on your statements and not mine. — Morder (talk) 06:23, October 27, 2009 (UTC) :Frankly, if there are two or more possible explanations based on canon (especially when one doesn't fit with what you think is right) then neither one is correct and should not be included as it will be considered speculation or put them both in with a background note. If there is no year available then that's something we, as a canon encyclopedia, have to live with. As I've stated before, it is not necessary to make everything fit within a date. Put it in a decade if you have to and nothing will be lost. — Morder (talk) 06:36, October 27, 2009 (UTC) If anything my statements give more evidence that the fifth season crosses into the next year just as the seventh does. How else can I break this down? Lets see: - Takes place over a week period - Takes place over a thirty day period - Janeway states that she had been helping the Varro for 2 weeks at the start of the episode - Takes place over AT LEAST a weeks period of time Just those four episodes alone add up to a 2 month period of time. The entire fifth season covering three months isn't possible. --Nero210 06:41, October 27, 2009 (UTC) :I can see nothing I say will be taken seriously. Thirty Days shows that he was punished for 30 days but the episode takes place over a long period of time than that. We clearly have no definite information how long each episode takes. Nor do you know how much downtime you'll encounter between episodes. This is the problem with speculation. If we don't know then we don't post. Adding up all the dates to come to a number (that will always be a guess) constitutes original research and also isn't allowed. As long as you refrain from speculating you'll be fine and your additions welcome. Continue to post your thoughts to the project page but anything that can be debated should not be changed until those items are clarified with the community. (I've noticed you've already made changes so just hold your changes until the project is completed and verified). — Morder (talk) 06:53, October 27, 2009 (UTC) Apparently nothing I say can be taken seriously either. I only made changes that had hard, canon evidence. I've been holding further changes since this whole debate started. Also how can "original research" not be allowed? Anyone can look at the evidence I just presented and come to the same conclusion, including yourself. --Nero210 06:57, October 27, 2009 (UTC) :I take your changes seriously - you just need to understand that star trek & the real world don't always mix and can't fit in reality at times. It happens with a lot of episodes. Retcons are a major problem in star trek. I just want to make sure that you understand that not everything you want to do can be solved that will meet the requirements set by this site's policies. Any assumption can not be used as evidence. Even if you think you're absolutely right someone else can have contravening information that shows other possibilities. Let's just stick to the facts and not extrapolate and everything will be fine. — Morder (talk) 07:03, October 27, 2009 (UTC)